Your Career, Your Future

Karolina: Hello, and welcome to the Your Career, Your Future podcast. I’m Karolina Pilcher, Senior Strategy and Research Manager at Jersey Finance, and today we are discussing a question that many students face when thinking about their future. Should I go to university, or should I go straight into work? Now, there is no one-size-fits-all answer, right? And that’s exactly why we will be talking to our guests today and exploring this further.

Joining me, uh, we have Jeevan Bhangu, from RBS, who chose the university pathway, studying before entering the sector, and Libby Woodward from KPMG, who decided to leave school and start working straight away, gaining qualification and experience on the job.

Today, we’ll be hearing about their experiences, discuss the pros and cons of each route, and share some advice for students considering their own career journey. Let’s start with introductions. So Jeevan, maybe let’s start with you. Tell us a little bit more about your journey.

Jeevan: I, uh, went to university, went to Warwick University and studied biochemistry. I guess like a lot of students, during my time of A levels, I was a little bit unsure what kind of career path I wanted to go down. So for that reason, I decided to study a STEM degree in biochemistry, which opens up a lot of doors, a lot of career paths. And then after graduating from university, still a bit unsure what I wanted to do, I had a few friends that were actually working in banking and suggested that I work in the finance industry for various reasons. I guess we’ll probably go into those later on in the podcast. And, uh, yeah, then the opportunity I saw, um, was with RBS International as part of the graduate program with NatWest, and here I am now in Jersey.

Karolina: Fantastic. Nice to have you here. Uh, Libby, what about your journey?

Libby: So my route was actually very different. I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do when I was at school. I picked, very similar to you, Jeevan, STEM subjects for my A levels. I also then applied for chemistry at university. However, I decided that in the final few months before I wanted to go, that I wanted to pursue a career in finance. And being in Jersey, we’re so lucky to have the opportunity to start when you’re 18 and go straight into a job, and you can still learn on the job, which I didn’t know until I started applying. So I applied to a few apprenticeships and ended up at KPMG.

Karolina: Amazing, and it’s funny ’cause I… Well, I, I was meant to do biotechnology at uni, um, ended up doing sociology, but it’s quite funny that we’re all kind of very, uh, STEM-related subjects. Anyway, uh, guys, so when you look back, right, to when you had to make that decision, what would you say influenced your decision the most when you were kind of deciding, do I go to uni? Do I kind of go straight into work?

Jeevan: It was a difficult one because at the time when I was studying my A levels, so that was back in… I mean, I went to university in 2016. Back then, there wasn’t anywhere near as many territory pathways available, so apprenticeships, you have to bear in mind as well the UK has a very different, um, structure, economic structure compared to Jersey, so we don’t have sort of like finance opportunities right on our doorstep, if you wanna say, which is why a lot of students go to university to open up those paths.

The apprenticeships weren’t really much of a thing when I was still studying for A levels, and actually, most of the teachers were encouraging us to go to university so that we would have that advantage and hopefully try and explore other careers and, and what it is that, you know, the opportunities that are out there. Looking back, something I wish that my teachers and kind of mentors had encouraged w- would’ve been, um, a tertiary educational pathway, something like a degree apprenticeship. But I think, uh, yeah, equally are, are just as good as one another.

Karolina: That makes sense. And, you know, we know that at school, you know, at least my teachers as well were encouraging students to go to uni precisely for that reason, to get a little bit more experience, if you like, and then open up some of these doors. What about you, Libby?

Libby: I was also encouraged to attend university, and it took me… And I, like I said, I applied, but it took me kind of really thinking about decision post A levels and really choosing what was best for me. For me, that was starting my career early and getting my foot in the door. I wanted to work in finance anyway, even if I did do my chemistry degree, so why would I not start three years earlier and get the experience and a head start on the rest of my peer group?

Karolina: And that’s a fantastic segue, I suppose, to kind of maybe talking a little bit about advantages of both routes. But in your case, you know, like you say, you would’ve gone to finance industry anyway should you have gone to university, decided that you may as well just do it. So potentially one of the advantages is already resurfacing, right?

Libby: A hundred percent. I additionally, I also want to be quite financially independent and not rack up a lot of student debts. I think that is a big challenge that is faced with going down the university route, whereas I can stay in Jersey, I can live at home whilst also earning money, and also getting further education through my work, which are happy to pay for it whilst I was working for them. Additionally, I also found that networking opportunities are quite good. I’ve been able to switch career recently into a different role just by being three years earlier. If I’d have joined now, I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to move into my current job role.

Karolina: Fantastic. And what about you, Jevin?

Jeevan: I mean, I would definitely say similar to what Libby was saying, but from a university perspective, is the network that it gives you. So a lot of my friends, I mean, I have them as, as for, for great support. I call on them regularly, asking them for advice and, uh, you know, what they would suggest for the next step in my career, et cetera. I would definitely say the transferability of skills that you get from university. I mean, even for example, I mean, with my degree being in biochemistry, even if I decided that finance wasn’t the career I wanted to go into, there’s still so many other pathways that I could still go down even now. And I mean, if you want the university experience, it can be great teaching you, you know, to live on your own, independence, that kind of stuff.

Karolina: Party a lot.

Jeevan: [Laughs] No comment on that one. Yeah. But, um, obviously of course, like Libby mentioned, there are also downsides to going to university, things that people need to be mindful of, like the, the, the cost associated with it, the student debt you’re gonna rack up, and I think that’s even more relevant now than it was 10 years ago, especially with the cost of living. In the UK, student loans haven’t actually increased in proportion to the cost of living, so it’s something that people really need to take into consideration.

I mean, just something to add to that as well, I mean, I was recently at the Jersey Finance Careers Fair a couple of weeks back at the Radisson Hotel, where I was representing RBSI, and a lot of the students were really keen to learn more about the apprenticeship scheme that we offer. It’s a degree apprenticeship program. And for me, I mean, it’s a no-brainer. Working, getting your degree, and getting paid at the same time – what is there not to like about that?

Karolina: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think hearing both of your responses, you know, if you are more certain, I suppose, around what you want to do, like Libby was, perhaps it makes sense to just go straight into it, right? Whereas with, with you- if you’re still not 100% sure, gaining that additional sort of experience and qualification allows you to kind of step away from finance and perhaps move, um, somewhere else.

Okay, so Jeevan, do you think, uh, given that you’ve got, you know, your university experience, do you think having a degree from a different field, if you like, than one connected to your employment is an advantage?

Jeevan: I definitely think it can be, and I think one of the things that employers do look for, particularly in the professional services industry, is that diversity of thought. Different people with, with different degree disciplines will think differently, have different ways of working, and they’ll all bring something new to the table. My way of thinking, coming from a STEM degree, coming from a biochemistry background, is very methodical. It’s quite rational. Not to saying it’s better than anybody else, but it’s very formulated, whereas, you know, for example, there’s other people in the bank who are far more creative at thinking than I am, and I think that diversity within the organisation, I mean, that’s been proven to be a massive factor in the organization and the company’s success.

Karolina: Absolutely. You just complement each other, don’t you? And that really does bring that productivity as well, I suppose.

Jeevan: Yeah, absolutely.

Libby: Especially with the state of the current job market as well, I think being able to stand out and have a different perspective and have a different degree will often aid you in getting a job post-university. Um, I’ve seen it with a lot of employers where one of my colleague studied anthropology, and then he came into finance. Couldn’t get two more different things, and yet he was super successful and continued through his exams.

Karolina: Yeah, I’ll agree with that, similar experience from my side. You know, our best, uh, employees were, you know, from very different backgrounds and studying Latin or Geography or anything else, or arts, so absolutely. So I suppose the message from here is it doesn’t matter, I suppose, what you choose, you know, to study. There’s always going to be an opportunity for you within finance and professional services.

Jeevan: Definitely, definitely. And along the way as well, I mean, even whilst they’re at university, I would encourage students to build their network. Get yourself on LinkedIn early. Start connecting with industry professionals. Um, and asking them questions, asking them for work experience, because everybody, you know, who goes to university is gonna have, you know, that similar type of CV where they’ve gone to university, had their degree, but you need to think about how you’re gonna stand out on a CV. So give yourself some work experience.

Libby: Extracurriculars.

Jeevan: Definitely.

Libby: Sporting societies, History societies.

Karolina: Definitely. I agree, yeah. And I think especially, you know, at the moment where UK market is so challenging when it comes to trainee roles, I think that’s equally important to just get some of the additional experience early on so that you stand out, just like you said. So thank you very much, guys. So we’ve talked about some of these advantages, right, but let’s face it, there are also some, um, disadvantages and challenges picking both routes. So again, Libby, would you mind telling us where perhaps you feel you’ve, you’ve found your- your pathway a bit more challenging?

Libby: My biggest challenge was a hundred percent the confidence levels I had coming straight from school. You’re still very young. You’re only 18. You’re very much used to being around other children. You’re being disciplined by adults whilst you’re at school, and suddenly you’re in this big environment. You have to act like a professional adult every day, nine to five, every day. You can’t… Well, you do go out partying, but that’s on the weekends, and you’re expected to show up to work the next day if you do go out on a school night, which I found particularly difficult, especially when I did see my friends at university living this very care-free, easy life away from their parents in the UK, a completely different environment So yeah, having to be professional. [Laughs]

Karolina: And it is a challenge, right? But, um, obviously you’ve managed three years on, and you’re still here, so, so that’s fantastic. What about you, Jeevan?

Jeevan: For me, what was most challenging, and I think just speaking on behalf of my peers as well from what I could see, um, what was most challenging was first of all deciding what to study. I- in the UK you see, I mean, I don’t know what the percentage is, but a, a large percentage of students going to university pursuing that path. So I think there’s definitely a bit of peer pressure there, kinda just following the crowd, thinking that, you know, there’s that one-size-fits-all sort of model. You know, if I was to go back and tell my former self what to improve on, I would say, you know, “Just do what you think is best for you at the time.” I was 18 years old. I was still eligible for student finance up until the age of 25 years old. So even if I’d gone down the apprenticeship route and decided it wasn’t for me, I could have then still gone to university afterwards, so that option was still there.

I would also say as well, um, one of the biggest challenges for students who are at university is definitely time management. University’s a completely different format to being in school or having any type of structured education program. It’s very much down to you and what you make of it. It’s very independent learning, and this is something I don’t think gets talked about enough as well, is how many students actually struggle at university.

Something I was really surprised to see when I was in my first year at Warwick was just how many students were actually dropping out in their first year, either dropping out or transferring courses or taking gap years, and it’s because it can be overwhelming, it can be difficult to adapt, and it’s not for everyone, if I, if I’m gonna be honest with you. I mean, uh, some of the challenges and, and how to deal with those challenges, just be patient, do what’s best for you, and, uh, you know, don’t stress too much. In the end, everything works out.

Karolina: That’s so true, isn’t it? But it, it is daunting when you’re sort of 18, you know, and you have to make that decision. That feels like decision for life. So y- you know, I completely understand why, uh, some of these things that you’ve described would take place. So, I mean, you’ve touched on it, both of you really, throughout our discussion, but if, imagine I’m a student, and I just ask you, come in and ask you, “Right, which route should I choose? Which one is better?” What would you say to that?

Libby: I think it’s down to personal experience. Because I didn’t go to university, I would always say go straight from school. I’ve had the best experience. I’ve been lucky enough to have a great company who supported me through my exams, who’s given me a wealth of experience and opportunities to get to meet new people and develop my network, and I’m so much more professional and so much more confident than I thought I ever would be at my age now, and I would only be one year out into the world if I had gone to university. So yeah, I would always say school to work if possible. If it suits you, everyone, everyone might want the university option as well.

Karolina: What do you say to that, Jeevan ?

Jeevan: Um, in regards to which route I think is better, I, I mean, I don’t think there’s a definitive answer to that question. It really is down to the individual. I would say that university is the better option if you want to pursue a degree which is specific to the field that you wanna go in. So if, for example, you wanna become a doctor, a dentist, then of course go to university, get a degree, because that’s what’s required for the next step. If you want to go into a career where there are other alternative pathways in entering that, such as a career in finance, then I would suggest to definitely explore the other options that are out there, explore apprenticeships, explore work experience placements, whatever it might be, and really just take your time. Um, it’s okay to even take a gap year to kind of disconnect yourself away from studies, away from that, you know, from the day-to-day stresses of life, et cetera, and just build your network and explore.

Karolina: Get a bit of perspective.

Jeevan: Definitely, definitely. Get kind of, uh, move yourself away and see yourself, see, see it from a different angle. And yeah, from that different perspective and, and just, uh, decide what’s best for you at the time. And be patient because, you know, whilst 18 years old, you know, you kinda think, you know, you can get pressured by seeing all of your peers going off to university, and you sometimes feel like you might be left behind. It’s okay. Honestly, you know, two, three years down the line, it doesn’t really make a huge, huge difference.

Karolina: And do you know, I think that’s a really important message from both of you because I think it kind of recognises the fact that these days, you know, employers are welcoming people from diversity of backgrounds, routes of life, if you like, as well. And you don’t have to study, I don’t know, economics or finance to go into finance. Quite the opposite, actually.
Um, and both of your cases are kind of, uh, you know, proof to that. Equally, there are certain, we know there are certain professions that unfortunately you’re gonna have to go to uni and get, get your experience that way. Um, so Libby, you know, given that you left school, went straight into employment in Jersey, would you say that would, would be, um, a similar opportunity for you should you be in the UK?

Libby: Oh, no. In the UK, the job market is much harder. One of the big advantages of me, um, well, one of the reasons why I chose to stay in Jersey is the fact that I had the opportunity to be employed by a Big Four company. In the UK, it’s very, very difficult to get your foot in the door as a graduate, and as a school leaver, I would have no chance. So having the accessibility to the Big Four here in Jersey, where they are willing to take school leavers on, is such an advantage, and it also provides the opportunity of me potentially transferring to London with KPMG, and I would still have the experience of working Big Four in a big city. It’s just a slightly different route of going- going there.

Karolina: Absolutely. And Jeevan, from your perspective, coming from the UK, what’s your perspective on that?

Jeevan: I would say that, I mean, living in Jersey, I can definitely see that there’s a lot of advantages to being on the island. There’s a lot of opportunities, many more opportunities for students coming straight out of school in Jersey than compared to the UK. I mean, you’ve got pretty much every large financial organisation firm here on the island, who offer apprenticeship programs, who offer work experience placements, and that, those opportunities just don’t exist in the UK on this scale.

So I would say that, I mean, if you’re a student in Jersey, definitely explore the tertiary pathways that are available to you, the apprenticeship schemes that firms are offering, the work experience, the placement programs that they have. And if you’re in the UK, try your best to just get that experience in any way that you can, whether it’s, um, connecting on LinkedIn, um, whether it’s when you go to university, being active in, in societies and going to careers fairs, but definitely building that network is what’s important.

Karolina: I think that’s, that’s such an important message, and I, I would add to it, really don’t fear to be stuck on the island, as some people may, you know, sometimes say, because there are so many international opportunities and, you know, firms are international. They’re global, in fact, so there are always opportunities for secondments or exchanges or indeed, you know, you can just move your entire life to, to another country or continent.

Libby: I’ve got multiple colleagues currently out in San Francisco, and they’re loving their life, and they were all Jersey students, came straight through school, and now they’re living as managers in San Francisco.

Karolina: Amazing.

Jeevan: And I, and I actually just met one of them, I think, last week.

Karolina: Fantastic

Jeevan: A couple of weeks back at a, a networking event.

Karolina: So where were you doing there?

Jeevan: It was the networking event Libby invited me to, actually. [Laughs] So yeah.

Karolina: It just shows you. It’s incredible how, uh, how, uh, how many connections you can make and where different routes can take you, so that’s fantastic.

Jeevan: Definitely. Definit- and I think as well something to bear in mind is these companies are very global. Um, just because you’re starting off in Jersey doesn’t mean to say that you’re gonna be here for the rest of your life.

Karolina: Absolutely.

Jeevan: Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course. It’s a great place to live, and I r- and I really do mean that. But, yeah, there’s so many, as Libby was saying, so many opportunities to transfer internally.

Karolina: Guys, that’s been fantastic, and I really appreciate, uh, you sharing very candidly your experiences and, you know, your, your advice.
That brings us to the end of our podcast today. I really, really would like to thank you again, guys, for sharing your insights and experiences. They’ve really been invaluable, and I’m sure students that are at the moment thinking about what to do will find it very useful. If any of you listening would like a further conversation with Libby or Jeevan, I’m sure they’ll be happy to talk to you, so get in touch.

And whether you’re considering university or looking at some trainee opportunities or just simply exploring your options and thinking about what you’re going to do, you can learn a little bit more about careers in finance and those opportunities and pathways on our website. So please visit our website and find some information there. Thank you so much for listening, and we’ll see you next time on the Your Career, Your Future podcast.